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#1 2009-05-21 17:26:03

Buzzy
Member
Registered: 2007-10-23
Posts: 80

Dry fly leader question

I was out in the windy conditions yesterday on the Credit and the Grand and I had good time catching little fish on BWO's but had a helluva hard time making accurate casts with that little size 18 dry . I mean worse than usual.  If I put on a heavy fly, no problem but they weren't hitting the big hennies, just the little BWO's.
Maybe it's my leader.
I was using a 9.5 ft. froghair 5x tied on to a couple of feet of stiff butt with two feet of 6x frog hair
on the tippett.
Whadya think, is there a solution?


"It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless
one has plenty of work to do."
               - Jerome K. Jerome -

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#2 2009-05-21 19:03:34

bluenose
Member
From: St. Catharines
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 84

Re: Dry fly leader question

Maybe a shorter leader, 7 or 7.5 ft. would help in the wind. Not talking from experience but intuitively it would seem to make sense.

Regards

Just came across this on Mid Current.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/ … hen-fly-fi

Go to the section headed "In Practice"

Last edited by bluenose (2009-05-21 19:06:49)

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#3 2009-05-21 19:41:58

siestafred
Member
From: Ontario & Sarasota
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 507

Re: Dry fly leader question

What bluenose says is right. You don't really need more than 7-8 feet of overall leader on the UC for Brookies in most situations. In the wind it'd help alot. You could stay with 5X as well and that would help the fly to turn over better in those conditions.
A plus is the shorter rig will catch fewer tree fish also !

Fred

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#4 2009-05-21 20:26:03

gmac209
Member
Registered: 2009-04-11
Posts: 7

Re: Dry fly leader question

I always liked Ian's solution.

">http://www3.sympatico.ca/ianjames/thumbsup


The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
Babylonian Proverb

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#5 2009-05-21 22:08:09

flityr@home
Member
From: Kitchener, ON
Registered: 2007-12-28
Posts: 188
Website

Re: Dry fly leader question

Buzzy, the 9.5ft leader is fine but the 2 feet of butt and the 2 feet of tippet bring the total leader to 13.5 feet.  Couple that with the windy conditions and it would be hard to hit a hoola hoop.
Either shorten the leader (use a 9ft 6X and loose the 2 feet of butt) or tilt the trajectory of your cast slightly forward with a shorter stroke.  Stop your backcast at 12:00 (straight up) and take the fwd cast to 10.  That will result in a tigher loop and a downward trajectory.  Keep cast in that kind of wind as short and low as possible.
Cheers


Any method can work in fly fishing but it only counts if you do it on purpose!  bp

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#6 2009-05-21 22:41:03

Buzzy
Member
Registered: 2007-10-23
Posts: 80

Re: Dry fly leader question

Thanks for the comments. Over the winter, I read and reread an article in one of the British flyfishing magazines that went on and on about 14 feet being the perfect leader length, and funny that you should mention Mr. James, Gmac , 'cos he uses really long bits of level nylon, 20 feet sometimes! While reading all these cogent and well considered arguments, I became convinced over the winter months of armchair fishing, that I was getting refusals due to the drag on my fly caused by my shortish leader.  But really, what is the point of a drag frree cast three feet from the target.
It's refreshing to read that less is more. I'm going back to the shorter leader.
Regarding your shorter stroke advice, Brian, I remember reading another article that suggested practice casting with a wall behind, to prevent the tip dropping, so if I could just borrow your Scott G2...


"It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless
one has plenty of work to do."
               - Jerome K. Jerome -

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#7 2009-05-22 07:00:41

Robert B.
Member
Registered: 2005-11-15
Posts: 173

Re: Dry fly leader question

I agree with siestafred. Using a 5x is probably a better bet than the 6x. I've found that I've had no problem whatsoever catching fish on the 5x when normally you would use a 6x, so now I rarely use anything smaller than the 5x and the turnover on the fly is much better.


I am not against golf, since I cannot but suspect it keeps armies of the unworthy from discovering trout - Paul O'Neil

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#8 2009-05-22 12:48:41

dryflywaters
Member
Registered: 2009-04-06
Posts: 61
Website

Re: Dry fly leader question

I have used leaders of about 7ft for a ton of fishing with a foot or two of tippet.  There are tons of streams that 10 ft of total length is way too long.  Depends on the specific river/lake.


Jonathon A. Waske
Fly Fishing Artist
http://dryflywaters.com/

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#9 2009-05-23 13:02:11

DanJ
Moderator
From: Calgary
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 514
Website

Re: Dry fly leader question

I've been playing around with the same kind of fishing out here lately. Some BWO dry fly action coupled with a lovely western style breeze is always interesting.

For a lot of dry fly fishing I do use a longer leader as well; somewhere in the 11' - 13' range a lot of the time. The main thing with the longer leader is that coupled with a slack cast it can allow you to drop your fly in a little pocket/slot of water with a different current than the water the leader lands on. With a longer length of light tippet the leader takes longer to pull up the slack and the fly hopefully stays in the zone longer. A lot of the browns I find around here are feeding along a seam or tight on a bank so the currents are pretty wonky (swirling, or they may be in the protected pillow of water just off the bank, etc) - without the additional length it's very very difficult to get a good drift.

Flityr hit the nail on the head with his response though... Get rid of that additional butt section, shorten or eliminate the tippet, and change the trajectory of your cast. Changing the trajectory on the cast will let you get the fly closer to where you want it, but depending on the wind and the angle of your cast you risk slapping the fly/leader/line down harder than desired. So be mindful of that. Sometimes if you're not sure how it will play out try making a couple practice casts a ways off from the fish so as not to spook but to get a feel for where the fly will land.

Everything outside of ideal conditions requires compromises though, and you need to measure each factor... Say you shorten the tippet up long enough that you can get a more accurate cast but because of the current you can't get a drift then maybe you have to re-look at the tippet length or how you're laying down the leader (i.e. if it lays out completely straight without slack drag can become a problem quick). If the wind is consistent you can adjust your target to the left or right depending on where you see the fly landing; not easy if the wind is gusting though... If you can't see your fly that makes all of this tough too. Picking patterns with a bright post for the wing or something similar is very helpful in determining what is happening.

If the wind makes an accurate drag free drift seemingly impossible, there is usually an option to feed line down to the fish from upstream. Harder to get a hookup but better than getting no eat at all wink

dan

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#10 2009-06-01 20:37:15

Buzzy
Member
Registered: 2007-10-23
Posts: 80

Re: Dry fly leader question

Thanks for the thoughtful replies.  I've reduced my leader to 8 feet plus 2feet of 6x and it's more comfortable now. I should say by way of a background, that although I've been fly fishing for a long time. I have spent most of my time on stillwater. I have hardly ever used a fly smaller than a size 16, maybe an eighteen, until recently, and wow the flies on the Grand are tiny and the fish are so picky!  It's a new ball game, for sure and unlike lake fishing, accuracy is everything and there is drag to contend with! It's very technical and I must say, humbling at times.
I'm enjoying it immensely though , and the sound of rushing water does a good job muffling most of the cursing.


"It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless
one has plenty of work to do."
               - Jerome K. Jerome -

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